A new Catholic world

DownloadedFile

Everyone gets a tongue to speak

and everyone hears an inner voice

Paul Simon: “How can you live in the Northeast?”

A changed Catholic  world. A woman studying canon law.

And speaking publicly and critically  about Holy Mother Church. You gotta love it. Another educated Catholic assuming the fullness of her baptism—just as important as any priest including the pope. The sensus fidelium part of the Magisterium.

We are talking about Mary McAleese the first person from Northern Ireland to be President of the Irish Parliament whose  second term ended  in 2011. She then she moved to Rome to study canon law and is working on her doctorate.

She recently assailed Rome over its regressive  attitude toward homosexuality. She was hoping that resigned cardinal Keith O’Brien might break the taboo around the issue. O’Brien  was forced to resign as Scotland’s head prelate when he was outed by two younger priests

McAleese was hoping for some kind of public admission that he is gay as “a very large number” of Catholic priests are homosexuals. To her the denial must end.

“It isn’t so much the elephant in the room but a herd of elephants. I don’t like my church’s attitude to gay people. I don’t like ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’. If you are the so-called sinner, who likes to be called that? We also know that within the priesthood a very large number of priests are gay.”

The former pres wasn’t finished there either.

In the interview with the Glasgow based newpaper the Herald, she rejected Benedict XVl’s writing on the topic.

Things written by [Pope] Benedict, for example, were completely contradictory to modern science and to modern understanding, and to the understanding of most Catholics nowadays in relation to homosexuality.

Nowadays, it is not something that is perceived as something that is intrinsically disordered. Homosexual conduct is not seen as evil,”“I would have thought Cardinal Keith O’Brien, in telling the story of his life – if he was willing to do that – could have been of great assistance to gay people, not just in the church but elsewhere, who felt over many, many years constrained to pretend to be heterosexual while … acting a different life.”

Years ago the great Detroit bishop Tom Gumbleton said the same thing—if only the gay Catholic bishops came out of the closet we’d be better served.

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6 Comments »

  1. 1

    Gosh! The arrogance! Nothing insightful here at all. Nothing new. Total nonsense.

  2. 2

    The sensus fidelium part of the Magisterium.

    I find myself wondering what is the difference between the sensus fidelium, as you use it, and the zeitgeist?

    You couldn’t possibly suggest that the sensus fidelium is exclusive to Catholics. It overflows the borders of the visible Church, not to mention the hierarchy. So it extends to Protestant Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Easter Orthodox, even atheists, I dare say. So how does one distinguish between the sensus and the zeitgeist? Or, are they one and the same? And if they are one and the same, does the sensus fidelium change? And is it limited to the consensus now, or does it extend back into the centuries?

    But once again, how does the SF differ from the Zeitgeist? And if it does not, then is the Church not dissolved into a kind of solution (the world)? If the Church is not the world, and the sensus fidelium is distinct from the zeitgeist, then how do we distinguish them? Who decides what belongs to the SF? And does it include all who have gone before us?

    I’d like to hear some answer to these questions. I don’t expect to, but I’d like to.

  3. 3
    wmgrace Says:

    Obviously, the hypocrisy and injustice around the church’s position on the LGBT issue, is something we should all be talking about more often.

    For those who do not suffer from historical amnesia, it must also be evident that the Catholic church (as well as other organized religions), have actually been a principle cause or source of the tremendous amount of fear, prejudice and hatred engendered towards gay persons. This is the result of the centuries-old, absurd and repressive Catholic doctrine (theology?) which considers loving a same-sex partner, the serious evil and sinful practice of “disordered” persons. In previous times, much of the hatred of gays was passed on from the pulpits to society at large, and was all the reason society needed to engage in the persecution and destruction of the different lives of countless human beings – with impunity and all in the name of christianity. In most places, societal prejudice, fear, hatred and repression of gays lives on, along with the Catholic church’s disordered theology. If this were not the case, we would not be having a discussion around gay persons who fear “coming out”.

    Is any of this talked about in our churches? How often? Ever? That’s why your post is so important.

  4. 4

    Obviously, the hypocrisy and injustice around the church’s position on the LGBT issue, is something we should all be talking about more often.

    And we should also be talking about the injustice around the church’s position on sex (unnecessarily limiting it to married couples, refusing to allow open marriages, which are more inclusive), and we should be talking about the injustice of the church’s teaching on contraception and abortion (these two are basic rights), and we should be talking about the injustice of the church’s teaching on euthanasia, on pornography (there is nothing dirty about the human body), on the free market (JP II talked positively about the free market, which we know is evil). The church is responsible for all the evil in this world; it all goes back to the church’s teaching, creating false conscience. The faster we rid ourselves of these ecclesiastical shackles, the better this world will be. Right?

    For those who do not suffer from historical amnesia, it must also be evident that the Catholic church (as well as other organized religions), have actually been a principle cause or source of the tremendous amount of fear, prejudice and hatred engendered towards gay persons.

    I know! And don’t forget all the hatred towards prostitutes, drug users, fornicators, abortionists, and the Jack Kevorkians of the world, and the hatred of socialism and socialists and wars against communist countries, etc. The church is responsible for all these hatreds. And the church has the nerve to preach love!

    This is the result of the centuries-old, absurd and repressive Catholic doctrine (theology?) which considers loving a same-sex partner, the serious evil and sinful practice of “disordered” persons.

    You’re so right! Centuries old, absurd, and repressive doctrine which considers sexual exploration between two young and innocent unmarried teenagers who are in love, to be a sin. And Morgentaller, for example, was motivated by social justice. He wanted to help women to have safe access to abortion. Canada recognizes him as a hero (Order of Canada), but the repressive church still refuses to. We should be speaking out against this too. And, let’s not forget that Just War Doctrine. Look at all the wars that this doctrine is responsible for. Like I said, the church is responsible for all the evil in this world.

    In previous times, much of the hatred of gays was passed on from the pulpits to society at large, and was all the reason society needed to engage in the persecution and destruction of the different lives of countless human beings – with impunity and all in the name of christianity.

    This is so true! But I would go further. All persecution of people who do things that we traditionally judge to be bad, or evil, all started from the pulpits. How many prostitutes suffered as a result of this obsession with purity? And how many people contracted sexually transmitted diseases, all because the church kept teaching that condoms are bad. The church is responsible for these deaths and the suffering that precedes death. Think of all the AIDS patients who died, when all they needed was a condom, but their consciences were contaminated with this Super-Ego, this voice that kept condemning the latex.

    In most places, societal prejudice, fear, hatred and repression of gays lives on, along with the Catholic church’s disordered theology.

    But you know, I just thought of something. We are calling the Catholic church’s theology disordered, just as the church called the same sex orientation a disorder. Look where that led. It led to the centuries old persecution of gays. Will our use of ‘disorder’ lead to centuries of persecution of Catholics? We’re in a bind, aren’t we? If we say ‘no’, then we are saying that using ‘disorder’ to describe something does not necessarily lead to persecution of those with the ‘disorder’, so if the church is increasingly persecuted, it does not follow that we are the cause. Thus, we destroy our own argument above, that the church’s preaching against homosexual acts, referring to them as ‘disordered’, caused centuries of persecution of gays. That would not be necessarily so; the cause of the persecution could be simply good ole fashioned hatred of people who are different in some way. If we say ‘yes’, then we are just as guilty as those we condemn. Hm!

    If this were not the case, we would not be having a discussion around gay persons who fear “coming out”.

    Wow! This is tremendous logic. Most logicians would refer to this as a non-sequitur, but no, it’s just brilliant! What a conclusion!

    Is any of this talked about in our churches? How often? Ever?

    I know, you are so right. All they ever talk about now is Christ, how much he loves us, the importance of confession, the mercy of God, the forgiveness of sins, the hope of eternal life, blah, blah, blah. It would be so nice to hear a good sermon that blames the church for all the evils of the world.

    WM Grace for Cardinal!

  5. 6

    Cattiva: I hope you realize that I was being completely facetious in post #4


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