Pope Francis “played” in Washington

Justice

The truth finally emerges: Pope Francis did not hold a private meeting to express his support for Kim Davis’s efforts to block gay marriage licenses.
According to an official Vatican statement, Kim Davis was among “several dozen persons” attending a reception at the Vatican embassy, “the pope did not enter into the details of the situation,” and “his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support.”
Like many of us expected Pope Francis seems that he did not request Kim Davis be invited. As a matter of fact he was “played” most likely by Carlo Maria Vigano, a conservative church official who was appointed by Pope Benedict as Vatican ambassador to the United States.

VIGano
Francis relies on the locals to fill him in on ‘who’s who” and would not even know about Davis.It is not exactly news that very many JP ll/Ratzinger bishops are not in love with Francis and Vigano would be one.
This pathetic trick almost hijacked Francis’ vist to the USA. Most Catholics werfe incredulous after listening to Davis gush about this “secret meeting.” Francis would never allow this to happen.
Many are calling on Vigano to resign.
Michael Sean Winter, a writer and reporter with the National Catholic Reporter (NCR) and a Visiting Fellow at Catholic University, believes that if Vigano approved a controversial, albeit short, meeting between Kentucky county official Kim Davis and the pope, he should step aside. “Seeing as the meeting happened at the nunciature in Washington, it could only have happened with the approval and participation of the nuncio, Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano,” Winters wrote about the meeting. “If the President visits a foreign country, and the ambassador, against the advice of the State Department, nonetheless introduces the president to someone who causes a controversy that reflects badly on the president, that mistake is laid at the feet of the ambassador, not the president. If this meeting was all the nuncio’s doing then he should, in conscience, quit too.”

Vatican press secretary Fr. Federico Lombardi laid out the broad context of the putative “meeting”.

“Pope Francis met with several dozen persons who had been invited by the Nunciature to greet him as he prepared to leave Washington for New York City. Such brief greetings occur on all papal visits and are due to the Pope’s characteristic kindness and availability.”
As far as this so-called intimate blessing of Davis’s position, fuhgeddabout it.

Watch what happens to Vigano in the next year.

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19 Comments »

  1. 1

    Is Pope Francis in favor of same sex marriage?

  2. 2
    mushafta Says:

    Francis is the most unpredictable pope ever! This man is a complete miracle transforming the prehistoric models of his papal office’s past into something no one knows what! He’s a fearless man demanding immediate change, a much fairer society to live in and a Church more in tune with Jesus and his concern for the poor and afflicted than the corporate and the affluent structures that have created the dung of the devil.

    Everybody resonates with this guy! His humility and his gut wrenching honesty makes him everybody’s hero.
    Who cares if he’s conservative. He’s made more significant changes in a just less than a few years than other popes have accomplished in decades!

  3. 3

    Can you give me some examples of how he has transformed some prehistoric models, ie what he has transformed and into what has he transformed them?

    What concrete changes has he made?

    People generally don’t like to be challenged to become something more; they like to be told that you don’t have to change, others have to change. Could this be the reason people tend to love Pope Francis? Ie, he is not challenging them to change, but is lending them the impression that he has come to their side? In other words, there is no evidence, I am told, that Church attendance is up. People are not returning to the sacraments. They are staying right where they are. Obama has not given any thought to defunding Planned Parenthood, despite what Pope Francis said about the right to life. He believes that Pope Francis is on his side, and possibly that down the road, Francis will be lax on abortion and same sex marriage. Could this be the reason people are gaga over him?

    And are you counting the number of sex abuse cases currently under “his” watch now? For example, is he responsible for the cases of clerical sex abuse that have come to our attention in the past year (cases involving priests who were ordained in the 1960s)?

    Just curious.

  4. 4
    mushafta Says:

    Clementcrock…
    I cannot cite verse and chapter of anything regarding this pope. But I talk to a lot of people and read a lot of stuff. My gut tells me that he is loved by all. I meet Protestant ministers and agnostics, people of no faith at all- yet they all find him very approachable, very comforting, very open minded and CLEAR. He resonates with such a diversity of audiences. Which pope has ever been on top of the science of climate change? His humility and simplicity allows him to bring that fearlessness to challenge the powerful and the wealthy.
    As for the issue of pedophiles in the Church.. I do believe he’s doing his level best. He’s a good man and we all, no matter where we stand in the political spectrum need to cut him some slack.

  5. 5
    mushafta Says:

    I have just listened to a most remarkable interview about Francis given by Ted Schmidt. You may recall that he writes stuff here in this blog.
    I swear this interview is a real zinger! It’s the unorthodox and prophetic Ted at his best.

    Schmidt defines Pope Francis’ tour in the US, “a turbo-capitalist culture, extraordinarily run by predatory capitalists and economic fundamentalism.”

    Schmidt praises Pope Francis’ connection to the people and his inclusiveness; yet, he has concerns about the long-term effect of the Pope’s influence, if the leadership and People of the parishes (220 in Toronto) do not organize, connect to movements outside of the Church and go beyond charity work/thinking to justice work/thinking.

    Schmidt explains that Pope Francis is part of the prophetic, who stand up to the king. The prophet tells the king he is naked when he is naked. The prophet pulls the curtain away from the con-artist Wizard of Oz. (Is Obama the “king” and/or the “Wizard of Oz?) We have always had prophets, such as Thomas Merton, Martin Luther King Jr, and Dorothy Day. They come out of the bowels of the Church and are often on the edge but they are always alive.

    You really must listen to this radio interview he did Sept 28 as it truly paints Francis as the prophetic voice that he is!

  6. 6

    “In 2009, Benedict lifted the excommunications of four traditionalist bishops, including one, Richard Williamson, with a history as a Holocaust denier. That decision sparked global outrage and became a front-page story for weeks, deepening impressions of Benedict as out of touch and insensitive to public opinion.

    The outcry became so intense that two months later, Benedict released an unprecedented letter to the bishops of the world, apologizing for mishandling the affair and revealing how isolated he was from information anyone could find easily on the Internet.

    Flash forward to 2015, when Pope Francis named a new bishop for the diocese of Osorno in Chile who critics believe covered up crimes by his country’s most notorious abuser priest. The appointment triggered protests in Chile and objections from some of the pontiff’s own advisors on anti-abuse efforts, but has had little echo anywhere else.

    Francis hasn’t responded with a heartfelt mea culpa like Benedict, but with defiance.”

    Comment?

  7. 7

    “In a five-month-old video, Francis is heard telling an employee of the Chilean bishops’ conference that people criticizing his move are being “led around by the nose by leftists,” and that the country has “lost its head.”

    While the substance of the two situations may be very different, the potential for backlash is eerily similar. Just imagine what the reaction would have been had Benedict blamed his own woes on “leftists,” and you’ll understand the difference between the narratives the two pontiffs carry around.”

    The above two are from Crux News.

    comment?

  8. 8

    I cannot cite verse and chapter of anything regarding this pope.

    But you need to. You need concrete examples, real evidence, otherwise your conclusions are all based on gut feeling, and feelings can be very misleading.

    But I talk to a lot of people and read a lot of stuff.

    Alot of stuff that Francis himself has admitted is inaccurate and biased There is a narrative that shrouds his papacy. He has complained about it.

    My gut tells me that he is loved by all.

    Guts are for digesting food. Use your head, not your gut.

    I meet Protestant ministers and agnostics, people of no faith at all- yet they all find him very approachable, very comforting, very open minded and CLEAR.

    The one thing he is not is clear. Benedict was clear. That’s part of the reason he’s loved; because he is unclear, so journalists can twist his words to mean what they want.

    These others you mention have impressions, most of them picked up by the media. People loved John Lennon and had all sorts of wonderful impressions about him, but note what has just come out about John Lennon.

    He resonates with such a diversity of audiences. Which pope has ever been on top of the science of climate change?

    Definitely not this pope. Some of the most eminent scientists are getting off the climate change bus. There are all sorts of problems with the data. They don’t support the hypothesis. Notice that they don’t use the expression global warming anymore. Why not? Because it has stopped for about 16 years, so now they refer to it as climate change. Climate is always changing, and the changes are always unpredictable. Your science is outdated.

    His humility and simplicity allows him to bring that fearlessness to challenge the powerful and the wealthy.

    That’s your impression. It might be hubris. But people who know Benedict also point out that he is a profoundly humble man. You don’t really know how humble he is. I don’t deny it, but if you don’t like what a pope says, you will not read into him a spirit of humility. How can we be sure that our impressions coincide with reality?

    As for the issue of pedophiles in the Church.. I do believe he’s doing his level best. He’s a good man and we all, no matter where we stand in the political spectrum need to cut him some slack.

    But because Benedict was clear, you choose not to cut him the same slack.

    Ted, you are so lacking intellectual rigor that it is scary.

  9. 9
    mushafta Says:

    Francesco..
    Please, take a holiday. Relax! You’re getting bent outa shape over this new pope.

    You need to listen to that interview Ted did last month. It’s absolutely his best ever! He slays the dragons out there!

    Ted is right on with his denunciation of Ratzinger and Benedict. Right on with Francis!

    Look, here’s the new guy at the taking over the Titanic that’s about to submerge and fools like you are wanting the old captains back.

    Francis is rescuing a fallen church! He’s turning around a shipwreck in mid ocean and here you are with your ridiculous nonsense trying to handcuff him with the same old legalistic trappings of the Middle Ages
    when he’s using plain common sense and listening to the poor in the pew, not the rich and the famous.

    The world is a mess and this poor guy is fearlessly taking on the Pharos of the world, uplifting the poor and using his position to bring down those who sit on the thrones of the mighty – be they Wall Street bosses or potential Trump presidents.

    Give your head a good shake Francesco! Get behind this new pope and for God’s sake stop hammering on his climate change encyclical.

    He may not be here long but by God he’s already got this Titanic on course for great things! Go listen to that interview Ted did! It may change your life!

  10. 10
    mushafta Says:

    Clementcrock…
    I think you will find all kinds of anomalies with Francis.
    The sex abuse issue will surely not go away until they get rid of celibacy.

    As Ted has said repeatedly.. It just don’t work.

    Francis has way too much on his plate. This is still a Medieval institution demanding immediate change if it is to survive.

    Power is concentrated in one man’s hands and that needs reform.

    The Catholic Church has no alternative but to change. It is trying to live in the past. People who hang on to the likes of Ratzinger and Benedict are totally out of it, needing professional help.

    Catholics today are onboard the titanic and thanks to the Holy Spirit they got a fearless captain in Francis.
    Thanks to Ratzinger and Benedict the titanic took on way too much water after it hit the iceberg of Vatican 2 reform which these knuckleheads refused to accept.

    You must listen to that interview with Ted!

  11. 11
    mushafta Says:

    You have to love what Esquire magazine says about Harper…

    Here’s how he describes the Oct. 19 election:

    “It’s very much a referendum on aspiring oil sheikh Stephen Harper … Apparently, Harper loves the way, say, the Qataris do their oil business, but doesn’t think that much of their religion. A Christian oil sheikh, just as Jesus intended.”

    And I love this bit: “Harper, of course, having learned all the wrong lessons from the Bush-Cheney-Halliburton years, has been going to Trump University this time around, making a national issue of any Canadian civil servant who wants to wear a niqab.”

  12. 12
    mushafta Says:

    Some here question climate change and what right Pope Francis has to speak out on this issue.
    Take a look at this headline in the National Post today. Francis is once again taking the lead on what Ted describes as the most moral issue of our day!

    Harper’s climate record trashed by Vancouver mayor at high-profile Washington event
    Gregor Robertson says Canada is an embarrassing laggard on climate change under the Harper government and hopes election produces a more constructive government.

  13. 13

    Please, take a holiday. Relax! You’re getting bent outa shape over this new pope.

    No, not at all. That’s the problem with forums and email, you can’t see my facial expressions or hear my tone of voice. I’m not bent out of shape at all. I kinda laugh at what is happening.

    You need to listen to that interview Ted did last month. It’s absolutely his best ever! He slays the dragons out there!

    You slay no one, Ted. No one heard it. At least no one I know. I didn’t hear it. Do you really think people care?

    Ted is right on with his denunciation of Ratzinger and Benedict. Right on with Francis!

    Ratzinger and Benedict are the same person. Benedict will be a Doctor of the Church. I don’t think Francis will be. He’s not careful enough.

    Look, here’s the new guy at the taking over the Titanic that’s about to submerge and fools like you are wanting the old captains back.

    The Church cannot sink, because Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. Believe me, the Church will still be around when you are long gone. It will be around till the end of time, as Jesus promised. So your analogy fails.

    Francis is rescuing a fallen church!

    Christ rescued a fallen race. Francis is part of the fallen, which is why he was baptized. The Church has to pray every day: forgive us our sins as we forgive those….Every member is fallen. But the Church is Christ’s bride, and the soul of the Church is the Holy Spirit. Francis is doing what every Pope has done and is required to do in the past. Rescuing her is not in the job description.

    He’s turning around a shipwreck in mid ocean and here you are with your ridiculous nonsense trying to handcuff him with the same old legalistic trappings of the Middle Ages
    when he’s using plain common sense and listening to the poor in the pew, not the rich and the famous.

    Do you think JPII or Benedict listened to the rich and the famous? In fact, the rich and the famous all clamor about climate change and are typically left. Hollywood loves Francis. Africa has its doubts, so again, you’ve got it reversed.

    The world is a mess and this poor guy is fearlessly taking on the Pharos of the world, uplifting the poor and using his position to bring down those who sit on the thrones of the mighty – be they Wall Street bosses or potential Trump presidents.

    Trump is not president yet, and we hope he will never be. But Francis hasn’t brought down anyone. A paragraph in an Encyclical is hardly a fearless taking on of a powerful personage. I think you are imagining things.

    Give your head a good shake Francesco! Get behind this new pope and for God’s sake stop hammering on his climate change encyclical.

    I’m always behind our popes, unlike you. In your case, the pope only is a genuine source of authority when and only when he agrees with you. When he does not, you dismiss him. That’s a polite way of saying you are arrogant. You don’t recognize your limits. If you cannot see how large the mind of Benedict is, you are looking in the wrong end of a telescope.

    He may not be here long but by God he’s already got this Titanic on course for great things! Go listen to that interview Ted did! It may change your life!

    The Church is always on course doing great things when it celebrates the Eucharist every day. That’s greatness. What can be more important? If the world does not feed on Christ’s body and blood and if the world does not repent of its sins through the sacrament of confession, it destroys itself. Screaming and yelling don’t accomplish anything. It’s the day to day labor of the humble faithful that keeps things afloat.

    Re: Clementcrock…

    The Catholic Church has no alternative but to change. It is trying to live in the past.

    The Church is always changing. Always. It is a living organism, and living organisms grow and change. If you know anything about the Church in the Middle Ages, you’d see that what we have today is significantly different.

    Your rhetoric is just silly. You are saying nothing. Your argument amounts to little more than “the Church needs to get with the times”. Yikes.

    Catholics today are onboard the titanic and thanks to the Holy Spirit they got a fearless captain in Francis.

    He may not be as fearless as you think. He might be very much afraid of popular disapproval; whereas JP II and Benedict were not. Perhaps Francis is too afraid to be clear and definitive; perhaps it is fear that is keeping him silent on all the issues that are not politically correct. Anyone who comes out and says we have to do something about climate change and we should accept refugees and think of the poor more often, but says very little about things that challenge the personal lives of Westerners, will be loved and accepted. But start challenging westerners on their hedonism, individualism, nihilism, etc., and watch how fast they turn on you. Maybe Francis is ruled by fear.

    JP II understood Vatican II more than you did, he was there, he was part of it. You just bought into, again, the media narrative at the time, which is the perpetual hope of the world, that the Church will stop making the world uncomfortable with a strong kerygma and stick to the light and obvious issues that don’t concern us directly, but governments.

    Sorry Ted, you are living in a world constructed out of your own imagination.

  14. 14
    mushafta Says:

    Stop missing the boat Francesco!

    “He may not be as fearless as you think. He might be very much afraid of popular disapproval; whereas JP II and Benedict were not. Perhaps Francis is too afraid to be clear and definitive; perhaps it is fear that is keeping him silent on all the issues that are not politically correct. Anyone who comes out and says we have to do something about climate change and we should accept refugees and think of the poor more often, but says very little about things that challenge the personal lives of Westerners, will be loved and accepted. But start challenging westerners on their hedonism, individualism, nihilism, etc., and watch how fast they turn on you. Maybe Francis is ruled by fear.”

    I thought you were behind all our popes? That is not what I see here.
    You carefully select the stuff you agree with in the same manner you judge Ted and myself.

    Yes, my poor memory- Ratzinger and JP2, my apologies. The failed miserably Francesco! Miserably! Totally discarded Vatican 2, appointed their own conservatives to high places of power and now look what mess they left poor Francis.

    If you listened to Ted’s interview you might even catch on. He says that Francis is too much the diplomat to criticize his predecessors but look at all the Third World Cardinals he’s appointed! Quite the contrast!

    You really need to listen to that prophetic tape! Ted at his finest!

  15. 15

    From the first instruction by Saint Vincent of Lerins, priest
    (Cap. 23: PL 50, 667-668)

    The development of doctrine

    Is there to be no development of religion in the Church of Christ? Certainly, there is to be development and on the largest scale.

    Who can be so grudging to men, so full of hate for God, as to try to prevent it? But it must truly be development of the faith, not alteration of the faith. Development means that each thing expands to be itself, while alteration means that a thing is changed from one thing into another.

    The understanding, knowledge and wisdom of one and all, of individuals as well as of the whole Church, ought then to make great and vigorous progress with the passing of the ages and the centuries,but only along its own line of development, that is, with the same doctrine, the same meaning and the same import.

    The religion of souls should follow the law of development of bodies. Though bodies develop and unfold their component parts with the passing of the years, they always remain what they were. There is a great difference between the flower of childhood and the maturity of age, but those who become old are the very same people who were once young. Though the condition and appearance of one and the same individual may change, it is one and the same nature, one and the same person.

    The tiny members of unweaned children and the grown members of young men are still the same members. Men have the same number of limbs as children. Whatever develops at a later age was already present in seminal form; there is nothing new in old age that was not already latent in childhood.

    There is no doubt, then, that the legitimate and correct rule of development, the established and wonderful order of growth, is this: in older people the fullness of years always brings to completion those members and forms that the wisdom of the Creator fashioned beforehand in their earlier years.

    If, however, the human form were to turn into some shape that did not belong to its own nature, or even if something were added to the sum of its members or subtracted from it, the whole body would necessarily perish or become grotesque or at least be enfeebled. In the same way, the doctrine of the Christian religion should properly follow these laws of development, that is, by becoming firmer over the years, more ample in the course of time, more exalted as it advances in age.

    In ancient times our ancestors sowed the good seed in the harvest field of the Church. It would be very wrong and unfitting if we, their descendants, were to reap, not the genuine wheat of truth but the intrusive growth of error.

    On the contrary, what is right and fitting is this: there should be no inconsistency between first and last, but we should reap true doctrine from the growth of true teaching, so that when, in the course of time, those first sowings yield an increase it may flourish and be tended in our day also.

  16. 17
    mushafta Says:

    And tell me Francesco…

    How many Catholics and others would relate to these Neanderthal Cardinals that beg to differ, were they at the helm of the ship right now?

    Trust me, the church is polarized, severely fragmented, much like the world. Francis is doing his best to guide it through this great tempest.
    He don’t need no legalistic nut jobs like this guy from Australia trying to run the ship aground!

  17. 18

    The fact is, Ted, that Francis wants to make the leadership more collegial (from College, as in College of Cardinals). He wants to decentralize, so these people ARE in charge.

    But let me ask you this: If Pope Francis is so inclusive and tolerant and open, why did he fire the Monsignor that came out just before the Synod opened? You have not complained about that. If Benedict did that, or JP II, you’d be furious. You’d be calling them Neanderthals. But you did NOT call Francis a Neanderthal. Why not? Why do you overlook these subtle clues as to his true identity, a son of the Church? Doesn’t that reveal to all of us that you are utterly blinded by your prejudices? Doesn’t it, Ted? Come on, answer that question. A clear case of oppression, shutting down a gay priest who has a boyfriend, and all he was doing is calling on the Church to accept the reality of gay priests and the rights of gay couples to be accepted and to be given the opportunity to marry, and what does Francis do? He fires him; strips him of his faculties, sends him off to live in a monastery. What is that????

  18. 19

    Wow! Ted’s silent on that one. Cat’s got your tongue, Ted?


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